The Art of Pattern Drafting, Fit and Slow Sewing with Lisa Wagner of Draft.ed

In this episode, Lisa Wagner shares her remarkable journey from learning to sew alongside her mother and grandmother in Australia to becoming a couture dressmaker, pattern drafting educator, and founder of Draft.ed.

We explore the value of skills passed down through generations, why fit is about so much more than measurements, and how learning to draft your own patterns can transform your confidence as a sewist. 

Lisa also shares insights from decades spent designing bespoke garments and explains how her latest project, Draft.ed, is making personalised sewing blocks more accessible to home sewists around the world.

A thoughtful conversation about craftsmanship, creativity, slow sewing, and the enduring power of making clothes that truly fit.

Key Takeaways:

• Lisa explains how she can still vividly see her Grandmother's hands teaching her how to thread a needle and hand sew - she explains the importance of connection and passing skills down from generation to generation. 
• Lisa feels that the process of sewing well fitting garments should be a slow process, as it's important to make it well and make it right.
• She's worked across many industries from project management to costume design, and wedding couture, but now she has developed a tool for sewists to input their measurements and generate a pattern block bespoke to their body.

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Guest details: 

Instagram: @lisawagnerlondon

                     @draftedsewingpatterns

Website: www.lisawagnerlondon.com

                 www.draft-ed.com

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Lisa Wagner and her sewing journey

00:39 The significance of passing down sewing skills through generations

07:34 The role of sewing in identity and wellbeing

20:26 Introduction to Draft.ed and its purpose

31:17 How to measure for perfect trouser fit

44:25 The process of pattern fitting and adjustments

48:33 The creative process in pattern drafting

48:34 Discount code

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Transcript

Gemma Daly (00:10)

Lisa, welcome to the Sewing Social podcast. I'm so happy to have you on today.

Lisa Wagner (00:15)

Gemma, I'm so pleased to be here.

Gemma Daly (00:17)

was wondering if you could introduce yourself to the listeners?

Lisa Wagner (00:21)

Sure, I'm Lisa Wagner and I am a pattern maker, pattern designer I've had various careers in the past but they always lead me back to sewing so yeah, I'm currently now calling myself a pattern designer, so there you go.

Gemma Daly (00:38)

Awesome! So like with all of my guests, I'd to start at the beginning and I'd love to know where your sewing journey began and how sewing entered your life really.

Lisa Wagner (00:43)

Hmm.

going to be the same story as everyone it feels like because I think when sewing is part of the background of everyday life when you're a kid and growing up it just becomes part of your life I think. If you're interested in it I mean I do have two sisters who didn't take an interest but do know how to sew but yeah for me it was just always there. I think I was nine when I first

Gemma Daly (01:09)

Yep.

Lisa Wagner (01:14)

tried sewing on a sewing machine. think that's when my mum first showed me how to do that and you know with dolls clothes and really simple things little you know rag dolls that kind of stuff and then I think it was fairly soon after that my that I went to stay a week with my grandmother who was unwell and so yeah I spent some time with her and she was a seamstress and so that's how my mum learned.

Gemma Daly (01:38)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Wagner (01:38)

So was already

being passed down through the generations. So that quite intense time with my grandmother, Nana, I called her, she taught me all the hand sewing stuff. And I even have this distinct memory of watching her show me how to thread a needle by hand and make the little loop on the bottom. And I can see her hands showing me how to do it even now. So it's just one of those things that was always there. And I think

I'm quite a visual learner as well. so just watching people do the things, it helped me learn. Yeah. So that that's kind of how it entered my life, I guess.

Gemma Daly (02:12)

I love that because not everybody, believe it or not, even though it is quite a common theme on the show, learnt by having it passed down. Some people obviously pick it up themselves, but I think there's a real lovely, meaningful aspect of it passing down through the generations. And I'd love to go into your thoughts a little bit more on the value of sewing and passing down those skills. Why do you think that's important?

Lisa Wagner (02:21)

Yeah.

It's a connection. You really feel connected to the people who showed you, you whether it's your grandmother or your mother or a sewing teacher at some point that you know that you've come across in secondary school, perhaps about a connection between a person and another person. And there's something about doing something with your hands, isn't there?

a very human skill, so you can't not have a connection to the human that's teaching you this skill.

special relationship with the person that's showing you something that takes hands and patience and your humanity, I think, to make it work.

Gemma Daly (03:17)

that's really nice. Cause you know, obviously the age we're in at the moment where everything moves so quickly and AI is taking over so many people's jobs and things. think it is really important to draw it back to A, the human connection, because hopefully that will never go away. And B, like literally making things with your hands that a computer or a machine can't do.

But I love how you can literally picture your grandmother's hands threading the needle. It's really important.

Lisa Wagner (03:51)

Yeah, it's amazing, actually. And I feel like I've been I've been really lucky to have been passed down. What's essentially a craft, you know, I feel like it's it's it's not a lost craft, but I feel like it kind of lost importance in a lot of people's lives to pass on these sorts of these sorts of skills that perhaps we took for granted, you know, 100 years ago. So actually, today is my grandmother, which she would have turned 109 today. ⁓

Gemma Daly (03:59)

Mmm.

Lisa Wagner (04:19)

Yeah,

Gemma Daly (04:19)

my

Lisa Wagner (04:19)

it's amazing that we're talking about her actually. You know, I feel like in her day, it was just something that was always, you know, it was a skill that you learned as, as part of growing up. And, and then of course, it was the thing that you passed on as well, it was just taken for granted that that's what you do with that skill. And I have, you know, I have passed my skills on to my daughters as well.

Gemma Daly (04:21)

Yeah

Lisa Wagner (04:42)

But I think it's something I've had to consciously pass on because life doesn't really allow the space for that sort of craft anymore. And also, I also especially feel that living in England, when I first moved here, I was kind of surprised that people would take

Gemma Daly (04:46)

Mmm.

Lisa Wagner (05:04)

a zip that needed mending to the local dry cleaners. And I would say to my friends, well, I'm not sure if I said it to them, but I was very aware that every other friend of mine in Australia, we learned to do that ourselves and we would never go pay for somebody to do that. that I was really aware that our generation was missing something. There was something that hadn't been passed down to us. And I don't know whether that's because

Gemma Daly (05:26)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Wagner (05:29)

as women in our generation, we were told that we can do all the things, get all the jobs, but then it potentially leaves no space to do that craft, those old skills that you pass down through generations.

Gemma Daly (05:43)

that's a really important point. And I think hopefully we are the generation that will turn the tide again. Cause I speak to so many amazing people on the show and it's sewing is so important to all of them. How can we not pass it on? Do you know what I mean? But yeah, we do live in a weird, it's a weird age. And like you say, this country as well, we're very fast fashion orientated.

and maybe don't see the importance of fixing things, but hopefully, like I say, the tide is turning and we're showing the kids that it is important to mend, repair, upcycle. You know, don't always need new.

Lisa Wagner (06:25)

you

No, that's right. do. I do really think the tide is turning. so. I've got daughters who are in their early 20s and the others, you know, other kids that I know that are similar age and a bit younger. They I do know that they are very interested in buying old and repurposing. And that's a definite trend for this younger generation, isn't it? But I also think that the.

Gemma Daly (06:44)

you

Lisa Wagner (06:51)

But the starting from scratch thing hasn't been taught as well. you know, so it's great that all these sort of fast fashion things are being reused and re-loved and repurposed. But I would love to be able to pass on the ability to start from scratch, you know, not try and find a thing that's already been made and then make it work, but go, I want to make a dress and so I'm going to do it from scratch and I'm going to find the fabric that I love.

and I'm going to make a pattern or find a pattern that I love and start from there. So I think that's the bit that's missing as well, you know, but it's probably a deeper understanding of sewing than just being able to make something fit a bit different or, you know, change a hemline or repurpose things. Yeah.

Gemma Daly (07:35)

It really is. There's so much to learn, isn't there? It's not just following instructions and then you get the thing. It is a deep understanding and we'll go into a bit about that because like you say, your job is a pattern maker and I do want to touch on fitting later in the interview. But I'd love to know your point of view on what role you think sewing plays in things like identity and wellbeing, that kind of thing.

Lisa Wagner (07:37)

Mm.

I think it's massively important to be able to feel comfortable in whatever clothes you choose to wear. I think sewing and the ability to sew maybe from scratch or maybe to be able to copy something that you love and you know that suits you, I think that's a massive skill and it really makes you feel

like the things that you're wearing are a reflection of you. I've been privileged to teach some people how to sew and I've taught a couple of people one to one. And interestingly, I ended up with a couple of sort of clients, neighbors, people who were referred by word of mouth, but they often would come with a, well, I can never find a shirt, for example.

that fit me. was one girl that I worked with who was quite a boxy shape and she didn't have any bust and so women's shirts didn't fit and so she wanted to sort of go down the process of drafting a shirt pattern which pushed me out of my comfort zone because I don't like making shirts very much but I'm being able to help her learn to fit it to her body so that she could have a shirt in you know that looked

the way she wanted it to look on her body without feeling like she didn't fit the norm. There was also someone else that she brought a skirt to me and just said, I love this skirt. I wear it to death. Please, can we make another one? It was quite a complicated pleated garment. It was absolutely beautiful. And so, yeah, we worked together to make a pattern. So, yeah, I've been quite privileged to be able to work with people who just...

Gemma Daly (09:20)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Wagner (09:40)

know what they love and know what they want but can't find it and I think the beauty then of going into the pattern making and the making from absolute scratch means that you do have choice over how you put yourself together and how you look when you're out in the world.

Gemma Daly (09:45)

Mm.

I think we've all been there when you go in the changing room in a shop and things that you think you're going to love just don't fit. So it does actually affect, well, it affects me. It affects my mood and how I feel about myself. So when you can make things from scratch, know, draft them, whatever, or work from a pattern that's already there, and then it, it really fits.

Lisa Wagner (10:01)

Mm.

you

Gemma Daly (10:23)

It makes you feel so much better, doesn't it?

Lisa Wagner (10:26)

Yeah, it really does. It really does. And, you know, I've also made wedding dresses for people and there is nothing like having something made for you because the very first time you try it on, it's going to fit your body right. So, you know, I would start with the measurements and then I would make a toile and then that first fit is not, gosh, you know, I need to let it out in the hips or, you know, your bust is a bit smaller than the dress that's already been made sort of thing.

There's never, you basically never have to go through that.

Gemma Daly (10:54)

Hmm.

I think that's really powerful because like say it can affect you so in such different ways, but like say having something that fits really well, that is, that's powerful. So you've had quite the career journey so far, haven't you? And it sounds like it is still continuing to evolve. Can you talk us through that a bit?

Lisa Wagner (11:03)

.

Yeah, it is. It really is.

I can, yes. I mean, it still, it still blows my mind that way back when I was, you know, 16, 17, it never crossed my mind to do something that sewing or pattern drafting related, you know. But did an English degree and then I started doing project management. So I didn't even go down with anything English. I didn't teach English or anything. We're not at the start anyway, but yeah, I started with project management in Australia.

That was in the 90s. And then I moved country to the Middle East. And I ended up working. What did I do? I did do an English as a teacher course so that I could teach English as a second language when I was there. And then I picked up a job working for costume department as a buyer. There was a big Asian games.

Gemma Daly (12:06)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Wagner (12:14)

that was hosted in Qatar where I lived at the time. And there was a huge production company that came from Australia and through the Aussie connections. Yeah, I ended up landing a job in their costume department. I was a buyer for them. And then after that, I went back into a project management job. Again, through some Aussie connections, there was, I think, a project manager of

Well, it's an airport tech firm that I was working for there. And so then, yeah, that sort of led to project management. you know, the whole way through that, I was sewing. I was either making things for myself or I was when I had kids. So that was early noughties. Then I started sort of making things for the kids. And that sort of, as a lot of people tend to do,

Gemma Daly (12:47)

Okay.

Lisa Wagner (12:58)

start thinking, oh, I'll make baby blankets and I'll make bibs. And then all your friends go, wow, they're great. Can I have one of those? And all my friends about to have a baby, can you make them a blanket? And so that was kind of how the noughties went for me. It was sewing for children. And so roll forward to the end of the noughties and move to London. And I kind of thought, do I just go back and find a

normal nine-to-five job or do I try and give it a go and you know make this sort of side gig into into a job so I actually decided to yeah decided to become an actual dressmaker and wedding gown designer so of course I didn't just go I'll just make anything I went straight in for the let's be wedding gown designer and so I did that I actually did that for about some 10 years from about 2009 I think I started doing that

Gemma Daly (13:41)

.

I'm

Lisa Wagner (13:51)

it kind of suited because I had children at home. they were in primary school. They're much more hands on when they're quite little, aren't they? And, it sort of gave me the flexibility to be around and to work the, know, basically the sewing and wedding dressmaking around pickups. And, and then I, you know, I could do fittings in the day and, yeah, that sort of thing. So, but I lost, I lost, motivation to say for other people.

Gemma Daly (14:06)

you

Lisa Wagner (14:16)

And wedding dresses, there's a lot of pressure on wedding dresses and gets hard, you know? And I wasn't doing very many. So it wasn't, you know, I wouldn't by any means say that my business was financially successful, but it kept me going for a while. And I was lucky enough to pick up all other sorts of clients doing special occasion wear. Bridesmaids I did a lot, people who maybe wanted a special outfit for a birthday or...

Gemma Daly (14:16)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Wagner (14:42)

or somebody else's wedding or you know that sort of thing. I ticked over for a while but I eventually sort of thought you know I'm kind of a little bit sick of making things for other people under a lot of pressure and so I kind of scaled that back a little bit and was sort of morphed into sort of day wear a little bit. There's a friend of mine who lived on our street,

Gemma Daly (14:52)

you

Lisa Wagner (15:02)

she, she was such a big fan. said, you know what, if you're gonna make a little collection of garments, I'll put on a day we're going to have an open house, we're going to invite all the people we know. And so she did that. And it was just magic. You know, I ended up probably sewing for a good four months after that making all these things that people had pre-ordered. It was, it was really great. So

Gemma Daly (15:20)

Wow.

Lisa Wagner (15:22)

But that was also kind of the end of me this is sustainable as a single person. along, everything was on me. I was the designer. I was the fitter. was the sewer social media person, any kind of marketing, which obviously there was no marketing. I mean, I was on Instagram, but that's kind of a few Instagram posts. Doesn't really count for very good marketing.

So, you it was sort of naturally coming to an end because it was just too much without sort of, you know, going and finding a shop and then taking on staff. you can't turn what's essentially a home studio business into a big business without doing that. And that wasn't really what I wanted to do by that point in time. It also happened that my husband, who we'd worked together in the Middle East he was starting up a

a tech company that he sort of strong, he didn't strong arm into it, but he was sort of saying, do you know what, give me five years, let's do this, you know, let's build this firm together sort of thing. And so that was naturally at the time that I was pulling away from sewing for other people. And so, yeah, so I ended up kind of putting all that away, although I didn't put the sewing machines away because I think they're always out, but I didn't, sort of take on sewing for other people.

Gemma Daly (16:14)

You

Lisa Wagner (16:35)

for years, to be honest. I did do some teaching though, at the same time that I was sort of going back to work, but that kind of all started taking a backseat while my husband and I started this company. So I was in that until about 2022. So that was the five years. I did give them five years. We went through a merger at the end of my tenure there, and that was massively stressful.

And yeah, I'm sort of glad to be out of it now. But all but actually also at the same time, I think it was about the same time as we started the company. Gosh, I did too many things at once. Any wonder I was burnt out after five years. So at about that same time, we we were privileged enough to be in the position to buy a little holiday house in the New Forest. And over five years, sort of do it up and

put an extension on it and yeah, and we ran it as a holiday let, but it needed a lot of work. I would, know, we were in there with the paintbrushes and you know, fitting, pulling out kitchens and putting in new ones. And so that was my first taste of kind of being able to renovate houses myself with time to do, well, I say time to do it. I was also running the company, but on weekends I used to go and fix this little house and that was great fun.

And then after five years, it was sort of in COVID and we thought, you know what, we'll try and, you know, we'll sell it and we sold it. But obviously I missed the project. So we bought another one close by to where we now live. So we moved, we also moved out of lovely leafy suburb of West London.

to an island on the Thames to a project house, which also needs a lot of work. It still needs a lot of work. And then a little house next door to us came up just after that we'd sold the cottage in the new forest and it needed all the work and it's like, I'm going to do that now. So this was all kind of the time that I was starting to exit the company. so yeah, I took on the little project shack, which is basically a riverfront shack. It's super cute.

Gemma Daly (18:20)

Wow.

I

Lisa Wagner (18:39)

You know, for a year I was in there. Well, it wasn't all me. I did get some builders to do some of this stuff, but all of the final fit out, like the bathroom and the kitchen and I did all the flooring. Gosh, I even put in electric underfloor heating myself. So for me, all these other things, though, is about starting something new and making something. And it's that using your hands stuff. And that was a couple of years ago now that I did that little place.

you know, it's going okay. And then I've got a bathroom that I'm trying to do here at our house as well. So I'm tiling that at the moment. And yeah, it took me a bit of brain space to wind down from the corporate merger that we did. but you know, in the last two years now, and my brain is going back to, I need to make some things. I need to sew some things.

I need to rethink the whole pattern making and and I came up with this idea. It was actually three years ago, but it took me about two years to sit down and go, right, I'm gonna do it now, to create a sewing pattern block website that you can just go on this website and download a pattern block that will fit your body measurements. So it's coming back to that.

if only I could make clothes that fit me. And that's, I guess, for someone like me, who's always made very one off, personalized that was the missing piece of the puzzle for me, is always being able to start with a pattern block that fits the person and then you go for it. Then the design sort of is completely on you and what you want to do with that. But

Yeah, so that's where I'm at now. I'm staring down the barrel of doing all the sewing things again, but I'm also still tiling a bathroom. So watch this space on both.

Gemma Daly (20:26)

Well you certainly don't do things by halves Lisa do you? That's amazing. Yeah but that's fantastic and you obviously have this drive like you say to to make things and do things with your hands which is is really interesting. But you touched on obviously right at the end there what you're doing now and your newest venture is called Drafted isn't it?

Lisa Wagner (20:29)

No, no, yeah, that's an awful lot, isn't it?

Hmm.

That's

right. It's called Drafted. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. So the website that, been a couple of years in the making. But the idea is that you would just log onto the website and put in your measurements and choose a pattern block of your preference. At the moment, we're in beta testing at the moment. So it's really early days. And I've only got one pattern block, which is the trousers.

Gemma Daly (20:54)

Is that how I pronounce it? Yeah. Yeah. So.

Lisa Wagner (21:18)

I chose the trousers because I find trousers hard to fit. mean, you can't just go to a shop and go, they fit amazing. So my hope was that we could start with the trousers pattern block and everyone will go, wow, they're amazing. I've got trousers that fit me. But I I haven't even tested my own yet. That's how new it is. I just printed out mine the other day. Anyway, you can put your measurements in. You print out a PDF.

Gemma Daly (21:23)

Mm.

Lisa Wagner (21:44)

And it just comes out like a bog standard digital download that you'd be used to buying online. And then you put your pages together and cut it out. And yeah, and then you've got your personalized pattern block. So we will expand, I say we, it's me. I will expand to the other pattern blocks. At the moment, I'm just focusing on women's pattern blocks as well, because you've got to start somewhere, don't you?

Gemma Daly (22:01)

You

Lisa Wagner (22:09)

yeah, so that's kind of what I'm doing now.

Gemma Daly (22:12)

Awesome. Now I was going to talk to you about the trouser block because, you know, for me personally, I have a particular issue when it comes to fitting trousers and it's always to do with that crotch depth. Have you got any advice when it comes to measuring or fitting for that particular area that makes it easier?

Lisa Wagner (22:15)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

So it's interesting. that crotch depth. So the way that I create the pattern, you do have to put the crotch depth measurement in as well as a hip length, so waist to hip measurement. And so it will make it, in theory, to fit the measurement between your own crotch depth and your own waist to hip.

measurement and the difference between the two. When you are taking measurements for trousers, you really should put a bit of elastic or a ribbon around your waist and leave it where the waist measurement is and then do the same around your hip measurement.

and leave it there. So you've kind of got two horizontal lines that are always there. then when you take your tape measure and make the hip measurement and the waist measurement, then you also need to take that depth between the waist and the hip. you're not then guessing it. You've got those two lines there ready to go, right? So you take that measurement and then leave them there. And then the crotch depth measurement is you then

sit down on a flat surface, like a flat chair or your step or something like that. And if you can, put your knees sort of out parallel to the floor. And then from the waist elastic or ribbon that you've already got there down to the solid thing that you're sitting on, that is your crotch depth measurement. So that's how you would take those three measurements.

And then if you then use drafted and put that in, the measurements actually require that you to put those in as well. so where the curve begins is where it should begin for your body. And obviously where your hip begins is where it should begin for your body as well. So that's one of the best ways of making it fit you.

Gemma Daly (24:10)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Wagner (24:20)

But then as with anything, even with the pattern block, the very first thing you should be doing is making it up and making a toile and trying it on. So you make a toile with Calico. You try it And then even then, you may need to adjust some things. I remember the first time when I learned to blocks, the first one I ever made for me was a dress.

bodice. So it was a dress actually, it had all the sleeves and the skirt and everything like that. you know, even when you take the measurements and you're making the block to fit your body, when you put it on, even then there's still some tweaks that you need to do. For example, for me, I have quite a sway back and I'm quite short as well between sort of the bust and the waist measurement. So to make the dart not look silly on your body,

We turned this one quite deep dart into two darts. then even when you've made a toile, the trying on of the toile is still as important as just getting those measurements right. so I guess once you've tried your trousers on, there is a chance that the curve could be wrong on the crutch or around your bum. And this could be gaping fabric.

things like that. And then then you need to make the adjustments on the toile then. Then let you know, then if you do need to make some adjustments to that, mean, it's too, it's kind of too hard to explain, which is why, you know, sewing is so good for visual learners, isn't it? Because when you see it, you go, right. But there are so many people who do YouTube videos about how to fit, you know, like

Gemma Daly (25:44)

Yeah.

Lisa Wagner (25:53)

a saggy bum curve sort of thing, you know, what you would do. But often if you've got too much fabric across your bottom, for example, if you're to take take it out to reduce sort of the length, maybe between the hip and the crotch curve at the back, you would sort of pinch it out with your fingers and pin it. But really what you what you want to do is pinch it at the center seam.

Gemma Daly (25:55)

Yeah.

Lisa Wagner (26:18)

and pin it and then you want to ease it out. So it could be thick at the middle center seam at the back, but then ease it out across to the side seams as well. And it might reduce down to nothing on the side seams. but then yeah, just pin it out to the side seams. that should.

Gemma Daly (26:24)

Hmm.

Lisa Wagner (26:37)

then go to nothing back to the side seam. And then that would be when you then have finished fitting your trousers. I guess the next thing you have to do after a toile is make those adjustments back to the pattern. So the patterns, even though I'm trying to make a block that will hopefully fit you better than any other block because it's made to your measurements, there is a chance that you might still have to tweak it.

Gemma Daly (27:00)

I love that and I think it's important to say obviously it's a process, isn't it? Sewing is a process and we're all trying to get to the end sometimes as quick as we can but I know from experience that if I don't take a step back and really make sure I do those fitting adjustments then I'm probably not gonna wear it because it doesn't look right. So yeah, it's worth investing the time.

Lisa Wagner (27:06)

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I think part of the reason why I'm so drawn to doing wedding gowns and special occasion gowns is because they're the types of garments that if you're having it made for you, you do take the time to get the fit right. You take the time, you give yourself the time to go through the whole process of the fitting. It's not just get out the pattern, sew it up, and then go, ⁓ right, that doesn't fit, what a shame.

and then you've got a fully made garment that you'll never wear sort of thing. So there's something in the process that if you're doing it from scratch and you're following all of the, you know, the make a pattern block, do the toile fit and then adjust the fit and then create the pattern. That process becomes so much more rewarding, I feel.

because you know the output is actually going to be something not only that you've put time and effort into, but you've managed to make really special just for the person who's wearing it.

Gemma Daly (28:26)

and that's a good point actually. I've just thought of something that I've never really paid much attention to before, but we all, or you know, people that do get married or have these special occasions, we all put that time and effort into getting measured and fitted. But the clothes we wear every day that actually get way more wear than that one-off occasion piece, sometimes, like I say, we rush through them or don't pay attention to the fitting.

and it doesn't really make sense.

Lisa Wagner (28:55)

No, it really doesn't. And to be honest, I think if you do have a pattern block or even a pattern that you've tried and you know it fits in it and you know makes you happy, do make it, do wear it, do invest in some fabric that will last for years, that will wash well, that you know you can get years and years of use out of. Certainly when you're bespoke

wedding gowns or whatever, you are spending money on fabric, right? And it will last for years, but that can translate into everyday clothing as well. And I do think you will find that you won't be throwing your clothes away so soon. you know, for example, spent a little bit more money on a really nice canvas for your trousers in a cotton, I always use natural fabrics.

Gemma Daly (29:39)

you

Lisa Wagner (29:49)

I'm not sure why. I think growing up, you know, in my late teens, early twenties and, you know, starting to choose clothes for myself, I was always drawn to the expensive stuff. But I think it was a lot to do with the fact that I'd been in a household of women who made really lovely clothes and the fabric they would use on really lovely clothes was expensive, was cotton or silk or...

Gemma Daly (30:01)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Wagner (30:15)

you know, special occasion, things like that. So then when you translate that into going to a shop and looking for something that you want to wear, the touch of the fabric, and I always look at the labels and find out what is made from, you know, if you give yourself the time, anyway, so that obviously is more expensive clothing, right, if you're in a shop, but if you make that important when you're fabric shopping then as well, then you can give yourself a longer lasting garment.

Yeah, so that, for me, I think you should, I hope, in fact,

from making drafts that I kind of hoped that I'd be encouraging people to make everyday clothes, but elevate it like as if it was a bespoke, you know, once off kind of garment, like a wedding dress.

Gemma Daly (31:01)

I really like that idea though, because like I say, we wear these things every day. Why not make them special?

Lisa Wagner (31:06)

Hmm.

Gemma Daly (31:09)

Do you always work from your own block when you're making garments for yourself or do you like to use any commercial or indie patterns?

Lisa Wagner (31:18)

I tend to use my own block actually. My body has changed. I'm now quite a lot older than when I first made my own pattern block. So when I make dresses, I have a dress block from must've been 2009 and I always pull it out and I know it will fit. But you know, that's a while ago now. And, I'm perimenopause, menopause on the, on the verge. My body has massively changed.

I'm a bit nervous about making myself clothes that isn't that awful. I'm a bit nervous about making myself clothes, even though I know I can make clothes fit me well. It's because my block doesn't fit me anymore. So I'm going to have to get over that because I'm about to make, a dress block and I'll have to test it on my own website. And I think it's that whole.

my body's changed and I know it has, and do I want to go there? Do I want to make another block? Of course I will. and I should, but anyway, going back to your question, yes, I would always start with my own personal block. because it just makes sense. also I, when it comes to other patterns, I think, you know, until probably I'd learned proper pattern drafting and by saying proper pattern drafting.

Gemma Daly (32:05)

Yeah.

Lisa Wagner (32:25)

I did a couple of short courses at London College of Fashion. They run sort of week long courses in the summer. And this is 15 years ago now. And I did three. I haven't done a degree. So I think until I learned how to make my own block, I would use.

already published patterns. when I was living in the Middle East, there wasn't there wasn't dressmaking shops and stuff, but they did get lots of magazines in and one of the magazines that some of the supermarkets had was a burda magazine. And it had pattern after pattern after pattern. So you know, I bought a few and you could just trace out the pattern. But then, you know, if you get a couple over, you know, period of months, you realize that

Gemma Daly (32:57)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Wagner (33:08)

There's not much difference between those trousers that month and then the trousers the next month. And then it kind of something the penny drops, you you, you, you see that actually there's, there's probably one base pattern there. Right. So, I just, I just stopped buying published patterns because, you know, I just, I just knew that if I had a pair of trousers, that would fit, then I would turn it into anything.

Gemma Daly (33:13)

Hmm.

Lisa Wagner (33:34)

You know, you could change the leg to make it wider. You can make them into shorts. You could change the pockets You could put in a zip fly or take out the zip fly So, you know, I haven't bought patterns for ages. I do buy I do like to buy pattern magazines. Are you know sewing magazines that come with patterns? There was this fantastic magazine. There is a fantastic magazine in Australia called peppermint, which I just yeah do like

Gemma Daly (33:57)

Yes.

Lisa Wagner (33:59)

I just picked it up in an airport once and thought, wow, this is amazing. When I was flying back home to London from Australia and I've just loved it ever since. And there's some great patterns every month. So I used to get that sense here to London. But sure enough, most of the patterns just don't ever get opened. They're great. But I just don't need to use somebody else's pattern, which is not

I'm not supporting the independent pattern designers, am I? By saying that. there, know, some, you know, I know some people need it because even my mum who taught me how to sew, it blows her mind when I show her what to do to tweak a pattern. She was testing my trousers block for me. And then she sort of said to me, but how, you know, how do I then turn it into trousers? She's, but.

What about a waistband? How do I make a waistband? So I took out my pattern and I just videoed it and sent it to her on WhatsApp. And she's like, my God, that's how you do it. And so, you know, even someone who is, you know, in their seventies and been sewing as long as she can remember, that's not a natural instinct to her either. So I do get that, you know, sometimes being stepped from the start to the end all the way through that process is so much better for some sewing brains, I guess.

Gemma Daly (34:57)

Mm.

Lisa Wagner (35:17)

And maybe people who have a bit more confidence or not in their ability, know, they're buying a digital pattern off an independent designer versus starting from scratch yourself. It just depends on how you feel about your own sewing.

Gemma Daly (35:32)

It really does, and that's interesting because know, you're doing what's right for you. You're using your block, what you want to wear, but it doesn't mean that you still don't support the independent designers. You know, if you're on Instagram you can like their stuff, you can share their stuff, it doesn't always have to be a purchase as such for you to support them. Do you know what I mean?

Lisa Wagner (35:34)

Mm.

Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And of course, you know, where would we be without the Instagram and independent designers on Instagram and the sewing community that's built up around that because, you know, it's quite phenomenal how much is out there visually, you know, so even if you're not going to buy the thing or you want to buy the thing or you know, you want to make a certain type

Gemma Daly (36:04)

Yeah.

Lisa Wagner (36:21)

of dress or a pair of trousers. There's so much to see and so much to choose from and it's really amazing how much is available, especially on Instagram. don't know whether there's anything quite so strong for sewing still after all this time.

Gemma Daly (36:37)

Yeah, I think still Instagram is the place to be. Cause like you say, is a visual craft. You need to see the things that everybody's making. And it is great that there is something out there for everybody. So those that need the hand holding, which I am sometimes, it depends what I want to make, you know, I'll happily sit there and follow every instruction or sometimes, you know, there's the option to like you do draft yourself. So.

Lisa Wagner (36:41)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Gemma Daly (37:05)

It's good there's something for everyone.

Lisa Wagner (37:05)

Yeah,

yeah, it's true. That's really true. I do love how many people do pattern hacks though as well. And I always think, you know, they're just, I wonder if all these people realize how close they are to really being able to design something for themselves, you know, from scratch, because so many people go, well, I've started with this and then I use that and then I mash these two up together. It's fantastic. yeah, you know, it's an amazing, it's an amazing.

Gemma Daly (37:12)

Mmm.

Yeah

Lisa Wagner (37:32)

thing really, isn't it? Sewing and the kind of creativity you can bring into your sewing practice from, you know, whatever suits your ability and how much belief you have in yourself, I guess, comes down to it as well.

Gemma Daly (37:43)

Yeah,

yeah, that is a big point actually, because I've spoken to a few people that are obviously very confident in their own ability or not afraid of it going wrong, because that's the opposite thing, isn't it? And some people just don't have that as well. And I really do envy it, the people that just go for it. But, you know, there's something for everybody and that's great.

Lisa Wagner (37:57)

Yeah.

Mmm.

There is, isn't there? have that battle as well about, I mean, I know how to sew, you know, I know how to do these things, but I don't know how to show people on Instagram. I'm just not an Instagram I say I'm not an Instagram person. I do have Instagram accounts for all sorts of things, but struggle with putting myself out in the sewing community.

Gemma Daly (38:23)

Hmm

Lisa Wagner (38:36)

It's weird, you know, and I am really quite experienced in what I do and yet I still can't put out a tutorial or I mean, you're clever, you go on YouTube and all those sorts of things and my goodness, that just fills me with dreads. And I know I've started this business now that's about sewing patterns and people will be looking for inspiration as to what to do with their pattern block and

Gemma Daly (38:50)

Yeah.

Lisa Wagner (39:01)

I really do have to do that. And I don't know what your top tips are, but I massively struggle with doing that. So that's something I'm going to have to overcome actually.

Gemma Daly (39:10)

It's funny you should say that Lisa, to be honest, because the episode that was out, this will be, obviously this episode will be out in the future, but as we are recording today on the 5th of May, last week's episode was with Sally, who really talked about her confidence and her struggle with getting in front of the camera. And I sort of go into this a little bit more on my sub stack about small things that you can do like,

record a short snippet of video. doesn't have to be a huge tutorial. Maybe it's one particular tip, you know, and build from there. But like you say, you've got so much experience and people would love to learn from you. So it's just about being brave and starting it. Yeah.

Lisa Wagner (39:57)

It is about being brave, isn't it? I'm still learning to be brave

and I'm nearly 53. How's that?

Gemma Daly (40:02)

I think it's the

same for anybody in doing something different. We've all just got to be brave.

Lisa Wagner (40:07)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think so.

I I did I did hear Sally's telling on your podcast. It was last week that I listened. So, yeah, I mean, it's it's interesting, is it that maybe it's about us people who kind of do these quite individual creative pursuits as well. It doesn't not necessarily the personality type that lends themselves to being in front of a camera. Or I certainly feel really comfortable teaching people one to one.

Gemma Daly (40:27)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Wagner (40:34)

But

if it means recording for posterity, it really makes me feel a bit sick. So yeah, I mean, I shouldn't think of it like that. But yeah, I'll have to get over it. Yeah.

Gemma Daly (40:42)

I get it.

I get it, but I think another

one of the tips was just think of it as it's one person watching and then hopefully it's not so intimidating.

Lisa Wagner (40:51)

I can do that.

Well, all right, I'll have to do that. And I obviously have to dive into your sub stack and read all of the fine details as well. But yeah, well, it's sort of nice to know, isn't it, that we're not alone in the struggle? Yeah.

Gemma Daly (40:56)

you

Absolutely not alone. Everybody

has their own struggles and it's good to talk about them.

Lisa Wagner (41:08)

Yeah, yeah for

I also find Instagram intimidating in that I'm just not the type of person that wants to post all the time. And I think that really put me off as well when I was sewing for work. You know, I just couldn't keep up with the social posting. It's really not me. And also I don't...

Gemma Daly (41:28)

Yeah.

Lisa Wagner (41:30)

I never make enough garments to even go, well, this is what I've made this week and oh, this is what I'm going to make next week. could never, you know, the last time I said something I think was for me was 2021. So I'm never going to be doing, you know, even a monthly Instagram post of this is this is what I've made, you know.

Gemma Daly (41:41)

Wow.

I'm the same actually. So from my personal account, I've, I barely make anything these days and it's sad because I want to, I just don't, I suppose I'm not prioritising it just at the moment, but I went through that whole phase of trying to keep up with everybody else and I was like, I'm not, I can't do this. I don't sew as fast as them and...

Lisa Wagner (42:00)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Gemma Daly (42:11)

I need to sort of plan what I want to make. And I eventually accepted that I have to do what I have to do and everybody else does what they do. And I feel happier because that burden has lifted.

Lisa Wagner (42:25)

Yeah, same. Yeah, you do have to come to some kind of comfortable place, don't you, with, you know, if you want to be in the online sewing community. you just have to be happy sometimes consuming it rather than being the creator. Yeah.

Gemma Daly (42:32)

Yeah.

absolutely.

So do you have any exciting plans coming up, either personally or for Drafted?

Lisa Wagner (42:49)

I do. ⁓ I've actually, I've been working with Tauko magazine on a design, which is, yeah, I can't give you any more than that. Yeah, I'm working alongside, look out for a pattern coming out in a future Tauko magazine. So that's kind of fun. And also, well, Drafted will just continue hopefully. ⁓

Gemma Daly (42:55)

Mmm.

Yeah, but look out for it.

Awesome!

Lisa Wagner (43:12)

I'll be working on the other pattern blocks as and when the months roll forward, there'll be more coming out there. Also, if anyone wants to test the pattern blocks, I'm more than happy to have people reach out and get in touch. And yeah, it'd be really great to see if there's anyone interested in testing them out. Yeah.

Gemma Daly (43:30)

Awesome! I really want to do it myself because

I would love a trouser block that fits me. It's just trying to find that balance of time.

Lisa Wagner (43:39)

Exactly. mean,

like I said, I've got mine printed out and I haven't even tried my own right and I know Jen Legg is also, you know, know, Jen, she agreed to test it for me actually and she keeps sort of saying, oh, I'm so sorry, I haven't got around to it and it's fine. Really, it's fine, you know. And, you know, it's it's you do need time, you know, because it's not just a quick, a quick zip it up, make your, you know, copy of something you've already made.

Gemma Daly (43:50)

Yeah

Yeah.

Lisa Wagner (44:07)

it is a different process, right? So you do need to give yourself some time and space to do fitting. And you don't necessarily get an end garment the process, but yet it's an enjoyable process. And I do encourage everyone to give it a go.

Gemma Daly (44:07)

Yeah.

Awesome! So just to tie up the interview Lisa, I like to do a little game of this or that. Is that okay with you? So first of all, classic plains or bold prints?

Lisa Wagner (44:23)

Yeah.

Absolutely go for it.

always plains for me, probably usually Navy and nothing else.

Gemma Daly (44:38)

Knits or wovens

Lisa Wagner (44:40)

Wovens for sure. I am not a fan of do like wearing things like t-shirts, but I tend not to make my own things and Not many people want a knitted wedding dress. So I haven't really haven't really done a lot of that either I Mean, what an it?

Gemma Daly (44:53)

He

That'd be a thing, wouldn't

it? A meal out or a takeaway?

Lisa Wagner (45:02)

Can I have both? Yeah, that's a good Friday Saturday combo, right? Mule out, take away the next night. All right, thanks.

Gemma Daly (45:04)

Yeah, why not?

Yeah, definitely.

An all-in-one garment or separates.

Lisa Wagner (45:14)

separates for sure. Yeah, I think the whole idea of mix and match. Yeah, although having said that most of the things I make are dresses which is an all in one garment, I presume. ⁓ yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm just not telling the truth now. Bit of both then.

Gemma Daly (45:17)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe a bit of both again.

Drafting or making?

Lisa Wagner (45:37)

I think drafting. I think for me, I think for me, I, as you probably can tell, I have a lot of things that catch my attention all the time. So the whole drafting process. And then once you get to the making bit, I enjoy the making, but it's the finishing I don't love, right? It's that whole, ⁓ that last 5%. It's such a drag and it's always buttonholes and I hate buttonholes or, you know, that sort of thing. So,

Gemma Daly (45:38)

Mmm.

You

Yeah.

Lisa Wagner (46:02)

Definitely the drafting.

Gemma Daly (46:03)

Tea or coffee?

Lisa Wagner (46:05)

coffee for sure. I never finish a cup of tea. I think it's because I don't like it very much. I always leave it somewhere.

Gemma Daly (46:14)

An organized stash or creative chaos.

Lisa Wagner (46:18)

it's both again because my stash is sort of organized because we moved house since I made my last garment, right? So it is organized because it's in boxes and put away. But the second I'm doing something in that creative mode, it's absolutely chaos. Yeah.

Gemma Daly (46:26)

Mm-hmm.

Sounds familiar.

Sweet or savoury?

Lisa Wagner (46:40)

sweet for me, give me a chocolate biscuit any day.

Gemma Daly (46:43)

Scissors or a rotary cutter?

Lisa Wagner (46:45)

scissors for sure. I don't trust that rotary cutters will cut exactly where I want it to be. But also the catch is if you're using scissors, you have to have lots of pins. So it's all about that process again, isn't it? I'm not just using that rotary cutter and cutting things quickly with just little weights on top. I am properly pinning that pattern down. What I was taught was like every 2 and 1 centimeters you've got to pin. So that's a lot of pins.

Gemma Daly (46:57)

Yep.

Yep.

Lisa Wagner (47:13)

then it nothing moves then when you cut with the scissors so scissors for sure yep

Gemma Daly (47:17)

That is true, that

is true. And the last one, follow instructions to the letter or freestyle.

Lisa Wagner (47:23)

I'm always freestyle. just can't. I'm at the point now I kind of, know, you give me the pattern pieces, I'd probably know how to put them together. And even if it did come with instructions, I doubt I'd read Unless it's something I really don't know how to do, a, what was the last thing, like a welt pocket or something like that. I'd probably be a bit more careful. But even then, I reckon I'd get halfway through and go, oh, I know how to do this now.

Gemma Daly (47:37)

You

Mmm.

Just go for it. Nice. So where can people find you Lisa?

Lisa Wagner (47:50)

Stop reading. Yeah.

So on Instagram, I am Lisa Wagner London and also my website, which is nothing much to say on Instagram, but I think it's drafted sewing patterns on Instagram. But if you went to Lisa Wagner London, there is a link in my bio which links to all of the other things. I think it's got a little web page that it links to. And yeah, so anything that I'm up to is probably linked through there.

Gemma Daly (48:19)

Perfect. And of course I'll link it all in the show notes, but I just want to thank you for being a great guest on the Sewing Social podcast today.

Lisa Wagner (48:27)

Thanks, Gemma, it's been lovely.

Gemma Daly (48:29)

I'm glad you enjoyed it, I have. You take care. Bye.

Lisa Wagner (48:31)

Thanks, bye.